I’ve been watching him and waiting for mentions of Atria and books, it seems like a very expensive experiment for sure. One that wasn’t so well thought out. There should have plan a plan, goals set out, KPIs etc.
This seems cheap at $7K considering how much other advertising and sponsorships cost, and when it's spread across the marketing budget for 8 books it's a bargain! Def. worth giving a whirl! That $7K isn't going to do anything to improve the low salaries of publishing employees
A friend just sent me a listing for a publicist position, hybrid NYC - so within commuting distance - with a salary range of $60-$72K. Impossible!
Even if they gave one employee that $7K it would barely impact their quality of life.
What's the end game? What's the ROI? Who knows? What is it for an ad in PW?
That said, the speed with which this was done seems ill-advised, and he doesn't seem like the right fit in terms of content.
And yeah, I have been in that sitch too re: reimbursements, for authors and for myself.
My publisher once made me take a cockamamie route from LA to New York with layovers in Phoenix AND Charlotte to get the fare to meet the $350 limit in the travel policy at the time.
A direct flight would have been around $150 more
My husband said, "They spend that much on cupcakes for office parties without blinking an eye."
I think this is the case of a good idea with not so great execution, at least not yet. It's not a bad idea for Atria to look outside of Booktok for promotion, and with all the discomfort we're feeling about this, none of us know the results. If it works, meaning the sales of the book chosen exceeds the budget put into it, then no harm, no foul. But if it doesn't, they've (hopefully) learned something and can apply it to the next campaign. The amount of money spent seems to be an issue, but if they only spent the $7k he requested (If I'm reading your post right), then it actually isn't that big a deal. If it's the $18k, then I'd say that's an expensive test. That means they'd need to sell at least 900 copies (assuming $20/book) to make it make sense. Again, hard to have too strong an opinion without all the details.
I highly doubt it was only 7k. I’ve been looking at the book’s Amazon ranking every day, and it hasn’t changed much. If you want to understand my criticism of this a bit better, look at the influencer’s TikToks. Then search the hashtags for the cruise. His content is a blip in the space. I’m not saying don’t look for new ways to use that space, but at least be more strategic about it and know that the person you’re paying for isn’t really good at promoting a book.
Oh, I saw his Tiktoks so I agree with you. I probably agree with you more than my comment suggested. Just wanted to offer a different perspective as I know the reason for your post is conversation and debate and my goal is always helping writers understand the industry and their place in it.
I totally get your perspective and you are not wrong! This one is just puzzling to me and reminds me of being in marketing meetings when someone would suggest an idea that I knew wouldn't work and why, but no one listened ;)
What a HOT ASS MESS. I would have killed to be at the brainstorming table when this was brought up. The whole pitch is so convoluted and has nothing to do with books? And the guy is so obviously not a reader. What a flipping mess. Please bring back the good old days when publishers did things like send a really cute airstream full of Emma Straub's books and ice cream and Emma Straub herself to tony east coast beaches for "The Vacationers"-- that was brilliant!
Last night, I thought, "I will give this a fair shot and watch his live book club on TikTok." What a mess. Wifi was spotty (hello, it's a cruise), and most people asked him about the cruise. Also, he only read up to page 65 of the book. The kicker: the book was published during the summer of 2023 so they could have done something then!
So very weird. This is exactly right: "What concerns me about this marketing campaign is that it was costly, the staff still doesn’t make a decent wage, and other authors who need a boost weren’t included in the pile of books Atria gave the influencer. Further, the content isn’t about the book." I wish I understood the logic behind decisions like this, but I'm resigned to think it's one of the mysteries of life.
Count up how many books are subbed 'TikTok made me buy it' on Amazon's charts and you can see why they don't specifically need a book influencer. This is also plays into TT's own move into publishing. Is it any different to a breakfast TV / celebrity book club promotion? Will viewers mind if 'Love Island' contestants have a bookshelf to browse? This might be a case of fortune favoring the next to be bold rather than the innovator, but it's no different in essence to prior multi-channel promo efforts.
You should watch his TikToks. I watched his live stream last night which was supposed to be a book club, but people mostly asked him about the cruise. I’m not implying it should be a BookTok person. I’m saying that perhaps this wasn’t the right influencer. There are a TON of influencers on that cruise competing for views.
I currently only watch Tiktoks over the shoulder of any available social media addict. The formulae used resembles the crack cocaine of marketing. In future, I suspect that influencers will be cloned avatars, whose salubrious surroundings will be generated at the press of a prompt. Hopefully the books themselves won't go the same way. The current self-censorship LLM regime only permits anodyne pulp to be passed. But the '5000 books to slightly more $$' crowd will soon be building their own bots to bypass the Cali moral guardian filters.
You've told me the name of the author, title of the book, and the premise, none of which I'd heard of before. Also, the publisher getting publicity in general will help boost people going to their site and seeing what they offer. I would be extremely surprised if all this didn't boost sales at all. Marketers tell us we need to hear about something a good number of times before we decide to buy it, so ongoing conversations like these are hugely valuable for them.
I’m not diminishing your comment. I wrote that I’d love to know the sales of the book during this timeframe—because then we know if this truly worked. You can’t really get a sense of why this is an odd pairing unless you watch his TikToks.
Glad you wrote about this because it is . . . insane. Plus, why is Atria throwing that much money at an influencer who will only read one single book of the few selected titles? The whole thing almost seems like a spoof, or like someone at Atria had a bright idea and was able to take it all the way up the chain of command while others looked on because they so don't get it—which sounds like a lot of my inhouse publishing experiences back when I was in traditional, honestly.
I feel like someone follows this guy on TikTok, saw the video where he pitched himself to go on this cruise, knew they had a book that took place on a cruise, and ran with the idea without thinking about the content being produced.
Pretty sure that since he is not a book toker his main audience aren’t readers, therefore sales will not be as high as if they had hired a book toker. Additionally, I’m not at all surprised that lesser known authors weren’t included on his list, which is a complete disservice to them. If I were an author I’d ask why my book wasn’t included.
What a wild story! I had a hard time getting my last publisher to reimburse some really basic expenses. I guess I should have asked for a cruise instead. 😀
These comments are helping me procrastinate. I know a NYT bestselling author who couldn't get her Big 5 to reimburse her $60 Amtrak ticket for an event.
I believe it. At my last in-house job, I had to tell some authors we couldn't reimburse them for amounts that low. Once, an author asked to be reimbursed $125 for something and I just paid it out of my own pocket because I felt so bad.
As a former marketer, I LOVED and still fully endorse a portion of marketing budgets going toward 'test and learn' tactics. However, spending money on 'test and learn' assumes there is a budget big enough to allocate money in such a way AND the tactic falls within the overall brand marketing strategy. I'd love to understand what was the 'test' here...the 'who' non-booktok influencer, the 'where' cruise, the 'what' choose-your-own book pile, the 'why' this specific pile of books (minus the selected book) that CLEARLY don't need any more promo, and/or the 'how'/'how often' he was asked to talk about the book. I guess we'll need to see the sales to learn the true ROI, even if the unearned PR impressions the stunt is getting seem to be adding up to something...but what, exactly?
I just don't get this, in any way, shape, or form. Thanks for bringing it to light, though. I'm off socials and knowing stuff like this is happening, even with my head in the sand, feels important.
I’ve been watching him and waiting for mentions of Atria and books, it seems like a very expensive experiment for sure. One that wasn’t so well thought out. There should have plan a plan, goals set out, KPIs etc.
Yes. I’m glad you watched and had the same reaction as me.
I wonder how they will use Angie (the girl he gave the books to). Maybe that was part of the deal? Maybe the story isn’t over?
Didn't the publishers weekly article say TLO had a bookscan sales bump of... 54 copies the week it was announced? Not exactly a raging success!
Yup. It’s sad.
This seems cheap at $7K considering how much other advertising and sponsorships cost, and when it's spread across the marketing budget for 8 books it's a bargain! Def. worth giving a whirl! That $7K isn't going to do anything to improve the low salaries of publishing employees
A friend just sent me a listing for a publicist position, hybrid NYC - so within commuting distance - with a salary range of $60-$72K. Impossible!
Even if they gave one employee that $7K it would barely impact their quality of life.
What's the end game? What's the ROI? Who knows? What is it for an ad in PW?
That said, the speed with which this was done seems ill-advised, and he doesn't seem like the right fit in terms of content.
I’ve worked for big publishers who wouldn’t even reimburse authors for $100, so $7K is quite expensive. It was probably more like $15-20K, too.
You're probably right about $15-$20K
And yeah, I have been in that sitch too re: reimbursements, for authors and for myself.
My publisher once made me take a cockamamie route from LA to New York with layovers in Phoenix AND Charlotte to get the fare to meet the $350 limit in the travel policy at the time.
A direct flight would have been around $150 more
My husband said, "They spend that much on cupcakes for office parties without blinking an eye."
I think this is the case of a good idea with not so great execution, at least not yet. It's not a bad idea for Atria to look outside of Booktok for promotion, and with all the discomfort we're feeling about this, none of us know the results. If it works, meaning the sales of the book chosen exceeds the budget put into it, then no harm, no foul. But if it doesn't, they've (hopefully) learned something and can apply it to the next campaign. The amount of money spent seems to be an issue, but if they only spent the $7k he requested (If I'm reading your post right), then it actually isn't that big a deal. If it's the $18k, then I'd say that's an expensive test. That means they'd need to sell at least 900 copies (assuming $20/book) to make it make sense. Again, hard to have too strong an opinion without all the details.
I highly doubt it was only 7k. I’ve been looking at the book’s Amazon ranking every day, and it hasn’t changed much. If you want to understand my criticism of this a bit better, look at the influencer’s TikToks. Then search the hashtags for the cruise. His content is a blip in the space. I’m not saying don’t look for new ways to use that space, but at least be more strategic about it and know that the person you’re paying for isn’t really good at promoting a book.
Oh, I saw his Tiktoks so I agree with you. I probably agree with you more than my comment suggested. Just wanted to offer a different perspective as I know the reason for your post is conversation and debate and my goal is always helping writers understand the industry and their place in it.
I totally get your perspective and you are not wrong! This one is just puzzling to me and reminds me of being in marketing meetings when someone would suggest an idea that I knew wouldn't work and why, but no one listened ;)
What a HOT ASS MESS. I would have killed to be at the brainstorming table when this was brought up. The whole pitch is so convoluted and has nothing to do with books? And the guy is so obviously not a reader. What a flipping mess. Please bring back the good old days when publishers did things like send a really cute airstream full of Emma Straub's books and ice cream and Emma Straub herself to tony east coast beaches for "The Vacationers"-- that was brilliant!
Last night, I thought, "I will give this a fair shot and watch his live book club on TikTok." What a mess. Wifi was spotty (hello, it's a cruise), and most people asked him about the cruise. Also, he only read up to page 65 of the book. The kicker: the book was published during the summer of 2023 so they could have done something then!
So very weird. This is exactly right: "What concerns me about this marketing campaign is that it was costly, the staff still doesn’t make a decent wage, and other authors who need a boost weren’t included in the pile of books Atria gave the influencer. Further, the content isn’t about the book." I wish I understood the logic behind decisions like this, but I'm resigned to think it's one of the mysteries of life.
This sounds painful and I’m glad I’m reading about it here instead of watching it on TikTok. A public service!
Count up how many books are subbed 'TikTok made me buy it' on Amazon's charts and you can see why they don't specifically need a book influencer. This is also plays into TT's own move into publishing. Is it any different to a breakfast TV / celebrity book club promotion? Will viewers mind if 'Love Island' contestants have a bookshelf to browse? This might be a case of fortune favoring the next to be bold rather than the innovator, but it's no different in essence to prior multi-channel promo efforts.
You should watch his TikToks. I watched his live stream last night which was supposed to be a book club, but people mostly asked him about the cruise. I’m not implying it should be a BookTok person. I’m saying that perhaps this wasn’t the right influencer. There are a TON of influencers on that cruise competing for views.
I currently only watch Tiktoks over the shoulder of any available social media addict. The formulae used resembles the crack cocaine of marketing. In future, I suspect that influencers will be cloned avatars, whose salubrious surroundings will be generated at the press of a prompt. Hopefully the books themselves won't go the same way. The current self-censorship LLM regime only permits anodyne pulp to be passed. But the '5000 books to slightly more $$' crowd will soon be building their own bots to bypass the Cali moral guardian filters.
I mean, we're all here talking about it, so it sounds like it's working to me.
The real test for this is if it boosts sales of the book. We aren’t here talking about the book...we are talking about the influencer and publisher.
You've told me the name of the author, title of the book, and the premise, none of which I'd heard of before. Also, the publisher getting publicity in general will help boost people going to their site and seeing what they offer. I would be extremely surprised if all this didn't boost sales at all. Marketers tell us we need to hear about something a good number of times before we decide to buy it, so ongoing conversations like these are hugely valuable for them.
I’m not diminishing your comment. I wrote that I’d love to know the sales of the book during this timeframe—because then we know if this truly worked. You can’t really get a sense of why this is an odd pairing unless you watch his TikToks.
I was starting to delude myself that publishers were getting more savvy and then I see this. Silly me! Great post.
The other ppl pod interview had me riveted, and I’m so excited to chat about it in a few weeks when we’re scheduled for a call!
Thank you so much!
Glad you wrote about this because it is . . . insane. Plus, why is Atria throwing that much money at an influencer who will only read one single book of the few selected titles? The whole thing almost seems like a spoof, or like someone at Atria had a bright idea and was able to take it all the way up the chain of command while others looked on because they so don't get it—which sounds like a lot of my inhouse publishing experiences back when I was in traditional, honestly.
I feel like someone follows this guy on TikTok, saw the video where he pitched himself to go on this cruise, knew they had a book that took place on a cruise, and ran with the idea without thinking about the content being produced.
That's what I'm thinking. I could TOTALLY see that happening at several houses where I was in-house
Operative phrase here: "without thinking." LOL.
Pretty sure that since he is not a book toker his main audience aren’t readers, therefore sales will not be as high as if they had hired a book toker. Additionally, I’m not at all surprised that lesser known authors weren’t included on his list, which is a complete disservice to them. If I were an author I’d ask why my book wasn’t included.
What a wild story! I had a hard time getting my last publisher to reimburse some really basic expenses. I guess I should have asked for a cruise instead. 😀
Maybe at least a canoe?
These comments are helping me procrastinate. I know a NYT bestselling author who couldn't get her Big 5 to reimburse her $60 Amtrak ticket for an event.
I believe it. At my last in-house job, I had to tell some authors we couldn't reimburse them for amounts that low. Once, an author asked to be reimbursed $125 for something and I just paid it out of my own pocket because I felt so bad.
I've done stuff like that...
<makes a note to bring this up with literary agent>
Kayak, paddle board...
As a former marketer, I LOVED and still fully endorse a portion of marketing budgets going toward 'test and learn' tactics. However, spending money on 'test and learn' assumes there is a budget big enough to allocate money in such a way AND the tactic falls within the overall brand marketing strategy. I'd love to understand what was the 'test' here...the 'who' non-booktok influencer, the 'where' cruise, the 'what' choose-your-own book pile, the 'why' this specific pile of books (minus the selected book) that CLEARLY don't need any more promo, and/or the 'how'/'how often' he was asked to talk about the book. I guess we'll need to see the sales to learn the true ROI, even if the unearned PR impressions the stunt is getting seem to be adding up to something...but what, exactly?
Bingo. Everything you said is what keeps nagging at me.
Well, I used to think I had a dream publisher...
I just don't get this, in any way, shape, or form. Thanks for bringing it to light, though. I'm off socials and knowing stuff like this is happening, even with my head in the sand, feels important.
It just isn’t sitting right with me.