Ignore the haters. That substack-that-shall-not-be-named has a history of whackiness across all kinds of topics. The whole thing was a badly-researched advertorial for Substack. And I doubt she'd turn down a traditional publisher if offered the chance!
I read the piece you're talking about and was astounded. I have a non fic/memoir book coming out this year and my experience is that everyone I have worked with so far in the publisher's team have been incredibly hard working, everyone doing what they can to make the book a success. I'm also a poet and can say hand on heart that every poetry publisher, even the small ones, have bent over backwards to try and push the books with the resources they have. I'm also editor of a teeny tiny nature/rural literary magazine and can confirm even at the very small scale I am pushing and promoting and trying my hardest to support and platform people. People who work in the publishing industry do it because they love books. No one ever goes into the publishing world thinking of their work as a hobby. Of course there are finite resources, and people have finite spending money, but people are most definitely still buying books, and publishers are most definitely still working flat out to find good books and bring them to the world. An excellent article. Thanks for sharing your side. Also, love the idea of framing the words of a hater to drive you on!
In the spirit of Kathleen's article, I'm trying to learn more about what publishers do to sell books that's aren't written by big names? I understand the "editing, copyediting, typesetting, cover design, printing, warehousing, shipping" that Kathleen mentioned. But what about on the marketing side? People at the publishing company try to sell to bookstores, the publisher might post on their social media, they might distribute some ARCs... What else? I'm genuinely trying to understand what happens for the marketing of a book that's not a ready-made bestseller...
Thanks, Kathleen. I'll look through the archives. I think I've read most of the posts, but I'll read again. I'm slow 😂 I feel that I've gleaned a good idea of what does NOT sell books (e.g. Goodreads giveaways, ads in the NYT) but I don't have a good idea of what the publisher does that DOES sell them. I'll look again...
To put a positive spin on what a publishing house does on a monetary basis -- you could make the argument that it is a business that attempts to redistribute income. If the largesse of Stieg Larsson (or, I guess, his estate at this point) and the Bible are funding new authors who will invariably never earn out, then they are doing what they can to combat income inequality! Yes, the manner in which they do this is probably not very efficient and could use some improvements, but I do think they are doing the best they can. Whether that will be enough for the industry to survive long term, I'm not sure...
Let me be frank (and speak just a little about my own publishing history): my first and third novels have earned out, but sadly, my second probably never will, and not because I got a huge advance - believe me, I did not! It's because it's about tennis, the Yakuza, art, adoption, and the pornographic industry (!), so, in publishing lingo, a "hard sell." I'll always be grateful that the editor gave my book a home, knowing it probably won't sell very well, because he found it to be an original, interesting work. And I'll also be grateful for the publicist assigned to me who worked tirelessly to send me all over the country for a book tour, and who also got me into the Texas Book Festival, where I had breakfast with Margaret Atwood, chatted with Wendell Pierce (Bunk from The Wire!!!), and said hello to Chuck Palahniuk (who wrote Fight Club, among many, many other novels).
Thank you for offering the other side. I've been blown away by the publishing staff I've come in contact with. People do buy books because hardworking professionals make they come alive and send them into the world.
So sorry you and other dedicated publishing professionals are super stressed. I'm a big fan of civility and understanding, supporting each other to make the best of challenging situations. There's no merit in tearing down others and their work. We do this out of love, to bring the joy of books into the world, welcoming all voices. Thanks for continuing to share your insider viewpoints!
Thank you for this post. It encourages me as a writer and increases my understanding. I hope that reading the supportive comments from your readers helps to lift your spirit. I really appreciate you.
It's brilliant that you've responded with this! Two sides to every story etc. - and truth in both perspectives. No doubt there are many wonderful people in publishing.
I think the source of the angst may be that writers approach the relationship emotionally with commitment and belief in their work driving them on, whereas publishing - the industry, NOT the people - is largely a commercial enterprise (certainly at the 'corporate' end of the spectrum). I don't see how you can ever reconcile those two positions (not to the satisfaction of the writer anyway) unless you happen to be one of the very few lucky authors who are truly commercial successes.
Thanks for this post! I was a production editor at McGraw-Hill many years ago and that experience helped me understand how much of a team effort one book is, and that team includes so many people beyond what most people realize. I think because writers typically have one, maybe two, points of contact at their publisher and they aren’t looped into everything that is happening with their book, some might feel like then nothing must be happening. And the amount of effort that goes into a book (from all sides) doesn’t necessarily guarantee results! Which can be frustrating, but a lot of writers don’t realize that’s frustrating for the whole team. Everyone wants the books they work on to succeed. Blasting someone or pointing fingers won’t help, and you’re right—it’s definitely not going to make someone feel like working even harder for a book if they already feel unappreciated!
Thank you for this!! I think we have every right to feel enthusiastic and encouraged about the publishing industry. There's been a morose cloud hanging over peoples heads lately, but I think it's much more helpful to take the long view. Books will always be here. People will always care about words and stories. It's all going to be ok!
And it's people like you, doing the work and sharing the wisdom, that will help us keep moving forward!
Thanks for writing this. And I read right down through all the comments. Oddly, I didn't read to the end of that article, as it was only covering two of the Big 5 and didn't deal with self-publishing at the time I bailed. Yes, the title was misleading.
Yes, the people I've talked to in the publishing industry; are great at their jobs, and do really care.
They have my respect.
Meanwhile, I've done well for myself in self-publishing and made a nice living. More than a few of my books continue to sell (for decades now) with no advertising. All to say that the article wasn't complete.
But I'm so glad you responded, despite your other life-duties keeping you tied up.You're a treasure.
*sigh* I’m sorry people-spouting-ignorant-nonsense is getting you down. It’s inevitable sometimes. But fuck them. Your voice is important and interesting. I look forward to every newsletter. (and to the day I can afford to hire you!)
Thanks! I read the article you reference just yesterday and it had me seriously doubting the wisdom of my intentions to write a book. It did me good to hear the alternative perspective.
It’s similar to education: just about everyone in the USA has attended a school or college just like everyone has read, and millions have written, books. But some experience with the end does not really give as much insight into the means as those who harshly judge the professionals doing the day-to-day work would like to believe. At the root of it all: an extractive economic system and skewed “what’s in it for me?” values, pitting people who can only succeed by working together against each other. Thanks for reminding us not to fall so easily into that mind trap.
I'm in the Lets work together for the betterment of all crowd. I help people create and promote their books. Just mentioning this to bring up the conversation. I appreciate you and your advice. You have A++ credentials. Those criticizing you don't. Remember that friend.
Mmmmm, such wisdom here: “pitting people who can only succeed by working together against each other”. Sounds like the entire world situation! Thankfully, more and more individuals are exploring and choosing collaboration over competition, so that WE win. May it trickle into industries and corporations as well!
thanks Kathleen. I think there is so much misunderstanding and misinformation out there on the book industry. I used to see it every day as a bookseller and I still get it thrown at me whenever the subject comes up. It's exhausting to constantly have to educate people about these things. Thanks for everything you do!
Ah yes, Substack, shall take over the industry. *Insert eye roll*
I mean, Substack is absolutely known for its top-notch visibility for fiction writers. Something that's very important for serialized fiction. There isn't a graveyard of fiction writers who tried to use Substack and left for better climes.
Substack benefits some writers, greatly, but it doesn't benefit all writers. I guess some people still haven't figured out we all don't write the same. Different strokes for different folks. I don't know why people forget this.
And people don't read books. Bah. My bank account and over stuffed bookshelf says otherwise.
Threads continue to be the realm of limitless hottakes. I hop on there every-so-often, and then I run back towards the light.
Ignore the haters. That substack-that-shall-not-be-named has a history of whackiness across all kinds of topics. The whole thing was a badly-researched advertorial for Substack. And I doubt she'd turn down a traditional publisher if offered the chance!
So true. Thank you.
^^ THAT!
Absolutely. She's tried anything and everything except, well, writing better.
I read the piece you're talking about and was astounded. I have a non fic/memoir book coming out this year and my experience is that everyone I have worked with so far in the publisher's team have been incredibly hard working, everyone doing what they can to make the book a success. I'm also a poet and can say hand on heart that every poetry publisher, even the small ones, have bent over backwards to try and push the books with the resources they have. I'm also editor of a teeny tiny nature/rural literary magazine and can confirm even at the very small scale I am pushing and promoting and trying my hardest to support and platform people. People who work in the publishing industry do it because they love books. No one ever goes into the publishing world thinking of their work as a hobby. Of course there are finite resources, and people have finite spending money, but people are most definitely still buying books, and publishers are most definitely still working flat out to find good books and bring them to the world. An excellent article. Thanks for sharing your side. Also, love the idea of framing the words of a hater to drive you on!
In the spirit of Kathleen's article, I'm trying to learn more about what publishers do to sell books that's aren't written by big names? I understand the "editing, copyediting, typesetting, cover design, printing, warehousing, shipping" that Kathleen mentioned. But what about on the marketing side? People at the publishing company try to sell to bookstores, the publisher might post on their social media, they might distribute some ARCs... What else? I'm genuinely trying to understand what happens for the marketing of a book that's not a ready-made bestseller...
I have written about this quite a bit if you look through the archives. Also, it is different for every book.
Thanks, Kathleen. I'll look through the archives. I think I've read most of the posts, but I'll read again. I'm slow 😂 I feel that I've gleaned a good idea of what does NOT sell books (e.g. Goodreads giveaways, ads in the NYT) but I don't have a good idea of what the publisher does that DOES sell them. I'll look again...
To put a positive spin on what a publishing house does on a monetary basis -- you could make the argument that it is a business that attempts to redistribute income. If the largesse of Stieg Larsson (or, I guess, his estate at this point) and the Bible are funding new authors who will invariably never earn out, then they are doing what they can to combat income inequality! Yes, the manner in which they do this is probably not very efficient and could use some improvements, but I do think they are doing the best they can. Whether that will be enough for the industry to survive long term, I'm not sure...
Let me be frank (and speak just a little about my own publishing history): my first and third novels have earned out, but sadly, my second probably never will, and not because I got a huge advance - believe me, I did not! It's because it's about tennis, the Yakuza, art, adoption, and the pornographic industry (!), so, in publishing lingo, a "hard sell." I'll always be grateful that the editor gave my book a home, knowing it probably won't sell very well, because he found it to be an original, interesting work. And I'll also be grateful for the publicist assigned to me who worked tirelessly to send me all over the country for a book tour, and who also got me into the Texas Book Festival, where I had breakfast with Margaret Atwood, chatted with Wendell Pierce (Bunk from The Wire!!!), and said hello to Chuck Palahniuk (who wrote Fight Club, among many, many other novels).
I mean... I kinda want to buy your second book now. :)
Ha! My favorite reader review of this book (it might have been on goodreads) read: "This is the strangest book I've ever read." 😁
haha SOLD
Same! Also, Wendell Pierce is a living legend and a prince of a man.
Thank you for offering the other side. I've been blown away by the publishing staff I've come in contact with. People do buy books because hardworking professionals make they come alive and send them into the world.
So sorry you and other dedicated publishing professionals are super stressed. I'm a big fan of civility and understanding, supporting each other to make the best of challenging situations. There's no merit in tearing down others and their work. We do this out of love, to bring the joy of books into the world, welcoming all voices. Thanks for continuing to share your insider viewpoints!
Thank you for this post. It encourages me as a writer and increases my understanding. I hope that reading the supportive comments from your readers helps to lift your spirit. I really appreciate you.
It's brilliant that you've responded with this! Two sides to every story etc. - and truth in both perspectives. No doubt there are many wonderful people in publishing.
I think the source of the angst may be that writers approach the relationship emotionally with commitment and belief in their work driving them on, whereas publishing - the industry, NOT the people - is largely a commercial enterprise (certainly at the 'corporate' end of the spectrum). I don't see how you can ever reconcile those two positions (not to the satisfaction of the writer anyway) unless you happen to be one of the very few lucky authors who are truly commercial successes.
LONG LIVE BOOKS!
Thanks for this post! I was a production editor at McGraw-Hill many years ago and that experience helped me understand how much of a team effort one book is, and that team includes so many people beyond what most people realize. I think because writers typically have one, maybe two, points of contact at their publisher and they aren’t looped into everything that is happening with their book, some might feel like then nothing must be happening. And the amount of effort that goes into a book (from all sides) doesn’t necessarily guarantee results! Which can be frustrating, but a lot of writers don’t realize that’s frustrating for the whole team. Everyone wants the books they work on to succeed. Blasting someone or pointing fingers won’t help, and you’re right—it’s definitely not going to make someone feel like working even harder for a book if they already feel unappreciated!
It would help if writers understood what publishers do to sell books that aren't written by big names. What marketing do they do with a small budget?
I just read this Substack post that does a great job of summarizing what traditional publisher do for their books: https://open.substack.com/pub/caffeinatedwriter/p/publishers-actually-do-a-lot-for-authors?r=419hk&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Awesome! Thank you so much. That's a great article!
Thank you for this!! I think we have every right to feel enthusiastic and encouraged about the publishing industry. There's been a morose cloud hanging over peoples heads lately, but I think it's much more helpful to take the long view. Books will always be here. People will always care about words and stories. It's all going to be ok!
And it's people like you, doing the work and sharing the wisdom, that will help us keep moving forward!
Thank you.
Thanks for writing this. And I read right down through all the comments. Oddly, I didn't read to the end of that article, as it was only covering two of the Big 5 and didn't deal with self-publishing at the time I bailed. Yes, the title was misleading.
Yes, the people I've talked to in the publishing industry; are great at their jobs, and do really care.
They have my respect.
Meanwhile, I've done well for myself in self-publishing and made a nice living. More than a few of my books continue to sell (for decades now) with no advertising. All to say that the article wasn't complete.
But I'm so glad you responded, despite your other life-duties keeping you tied up.You're a treasure.
*sigh* I’m sorry people-spouting-ignorant-nonsense is getting you down. It’s inevitable sometimes. But fuck them. Your voice is important and interesting. I look forward to every newsletter. (and to the day I can afford to hire you!)
Thanks! I read the article you reference just yesterday and it had me seriously doubting the wisdom of my intentions to write a book. It did me good to hear the alternative perspective.
It’s similar to education: just about everyone in the USA has attended a school or college just like everyone has read, and millions have written, books. But some experience with the end does not really give as much insight into the means as those who harshly judge the professionals doing the day-to-day work would like to believe. At the root of it all: an extractive economic system and skewed “what’s in it for me?” values, pitting people who can only succeed by working together against each other. Thanks for reminding us not to fall so easily into that mind trap.
Thank you. I agree about education. My sister works in it and what people say is wildly unfair at times.
I'm in the Lets work together for the betterment of all crowd. I help people create and promote their books. Just mentioning this to bring up the conversation. I appreciate you and your advice. You have A++ credentials. Those criticizing you don't. Remember that friend.
Thank you. Sometimes it’s hard to remember.
Mmmmm, such wisdom here: “pitting people who can only succeed by working together against each other”. Sounds like the entire world situation! Thankfully, more and more individuals are exploring and choosing collaboration over competition, so that WE win. May it trickle into industries and corporations as well!
Well said and good luck with the rest of the work!
xo, a working author who sells lots of books and loves her teams.
thanks Kathleen. I think there is so much misunderstanding and misinformation out there on the book industry. I used to see it every day as a bookseller and I still get it thrown at me whenever the subject comes up. It's exhausting to constantly have to educate people about these things. Thanks for everything you do!
Ah yes, Substack, shall take over the industry. *Insert eye roll*
I mean, Substack is absolutely known for its top-notch visibility for fiction writers. Something that's very important for serialized fiction. There isn't a graveyard of fiction writers who tried to use Substack and left for better climes.
Substack benefits some writers, greatly, but it doesn't benefit all writers. I guess some people still haven't figured out we all don't write the same. Different strokes for different folks. I don't know why people forget this.
And people don't read books. Bah. My bank account and over stuffed bookshelf says otherwise.
Threads continue to be the realm of limitless hottakes. I hop on there every-so-often, and then I run back towards the light.